Eps: 026 - Tough People Pleasing: From City Hall to Mental Health Entrepreneur with Haley Estelle

(Machine Transcript)

You are more than welcome to offer me feedback, but at the end of the day, after my research and all the things I've put in place to make sure this is a viable option, this is what we're doing. And if it doesn't work, I'm okay with reevaluating and renegotiating and doing something different, but those conversations right at the beginning of the clinic establishment were really challenging. I appreciate your feedback, but this is the direction that we're heading. If it doesn't work, please let me know and we'll revisit end scene. You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to leave less opportunity for feedback. It's a democracy until it isn't. It's tough people pleasing to still do it. Like yesterday, I gave up my seat on the airplane in the aisle because a gentleman who was double my size was going to end up in the middle seat, and I was like, you know what? Let me just scoot over. Did I want to sit in between the big guy and the big guy? No. But I did it, so that kind of little day to day stuff is still a challenge.

Una Doyle : 00:00:59

Welcome to the she Leads Business show.

Una Doyle : 00:01:01

Where I shine the spotlight on female owners of growing small and medium sized businesses. You're in the right place if you want to ditch the stress and firefighting, stop working too many hours despite having team members, and never compete on Price again. I'm Una Doyle, founder of Creative Flow. I'm a speaker, business strategist, and impact coach. Business owners hire me to help them to build a business they could sell tomorrow, but they probably don't want to because it's highly profitable.

Una Doyle : 00:01:28

It's fun to run because they and.

Una Doyle : 00:01:30

Their team are in creative flow and they get to make a bigger impact on the world. In every episode, myself and my guests share the strategies, stories, and wisdom to help you to achieve this, too. Now let's get on with the show.

Una Doyle : 00:01:46

Hello and welcome back to she Leads Business. I am delighted to have with me today. Hailey Estelle Hayley is the CEO of Be Better, Utah, and we are going to be diving into her journey today, her journey with mental health with her business. Welcome, Haley.

Haley Estelle : 00:02:06

Thank you so much and I appreciate it.

Una Doyle : 00:02:09

Great to have you. I always like to get to know the person behind the business. So tell me, what's your earliest memory?

Haley Estelle : 00:02:18

Oh, gosh, my earliest memory? That's a good one. I have to go all the way back to when I was probably three years old. That's the first happy memory that I have. And I was playing with my brother. So I have two older brothers and one younger brother. So my little brother probably was still a little bun in the oven at the time. But we were playing and I was jumping up onto the bunk bed. I fell off, broke my wrist and was rushed to the hospital. So that's probably the earliest one, but it comes with the territory. Being raised with three rambunctious boys. Yeah.

Una Doyle : 00:02:53

Interesting. How else did that influence you, being surrounded by Rutgers?

Haley Estelle : 00:03:00

Oh, gosh, I am a tough cookie. I will say that. I have sometimes a hard time tapping into my femininity, if that makes sense, being raised with boys. We camped, we hiked, we shot guns, we did all of the boy things. My mom was super into making sure I was involved in everything, so they didn't adjust for me just because I was a girl. So the concept of femininity was never really taught to me. I learned it on my own when I was five, six, seven, you could find me dressed up as Annie Oakley. And if you don't know who that is, she's probably yeah, the first female Sharpshooter with the fringe. And I would have these plastic bead necklaces that I would make and just swear around. But that softer side that a lot of women have, I tend to have to really pay attention to that when I'm communicating with anybody, really, just to make sure I'm not coming off as too big and strong and mean. So that really I can get what I want at the end of the day.

Una Doyle : 00:03:57

If you're to think of that continuum of feminine to masculine, where did your mom fall?

Haley Estelle : 00:04:05

That's a great question. I want to say just right in the middle as well. She was also raised with three brothers. She did have a sister, but her sister was in a home for most of her life. So very much the same. She wasn't a mom who was going to the nail salon or having her hair done on the weekends. She was packing up the Suburban with my father, and we were going up for a camping trip. We were fairly low income, so we didn't do big family vacations linked to the Caribbean or Florida or Disney World. It was get your hiking boots on, get the dog packed up, and let's go camping for a week or two weeks and do that. Yeah.

Una Doyle : 00:04:41

Interesting. I'm really curious as to how would you describe femininity.

Haley Estelle : 00:04:48

Great. I am on the struggle bus a little bit with defining femininity because I think there's this movement. I've got one of my close, dear friends who I love to argue with. He follows the concept of the red pill. I don't even want to say that out loud because I don't want anybody to Google it or find it. You can if you want some feedback, but they're very much women are weak and men are strong, and women aren't feminine anymore, and they need to be feminine and they need to cook your dinner and do your laundry. And I'm like, Are you out of your mind? But as I approached it, I've always viewed femininity, honestly, as the weakness. You're going to cry because you stubbed your toe. Get over it. Get up and let's move on, but in fact, there's a lot of strength and femininity in taking care. I am a caretaker. I have two grown children at this point, but I still take care of them. And I find myself falling back into and we'll talk about my background, I suppose, at some point finding things I love that I did as a child when I was a little girl. Arts and crafts and cooking and baking and things that through my career has gone by the wayside just as a nature of the lifestyle that I lived as a single parent for many years and sold breadwinner and going to school and getting masters and doing all of those things. So, yeah, I'm learning that now and it's pretty fun. I forgot how much I love taking care of myself. My mental health has stopped me from doing that and in the last six months or so, I've picked it back up and gone. Holy moly. I feel great finally, for the first time in a really long time. Yeah. Kind of tapping in and learning and figuring it out.

Una Doyle : 00:06:19

Glad you're feeling better about yourself. Better come back to this later in our conversation because I think there's some germs of things here that I think flowers into the challenges that we're discussing today.

Haley Estelle : 00:06:37

Yeah.

Una Doyle : 00:06:37

So you said you grew up, you'd go hiking, you had three brothers and all very active physical kind of environment. And then you loved arts and crafts, cooking, baking, et cetera. What was your biggest challenge as a child?

Haley Estelle : 00:06:55

Oh, jeez, his book. I think being noticed was probably the toughest thing. I share a middle spot in the family with my older brother, and I did grow up in a fairly traumatic household. I experienced childhood trauma, physical, emotional, so on, you know, that this strive for, hey, look at me, I'm doing this cool thing and somewhat uninvolved and not intentionally uninvolved parents trying to take care of four kids and work and manage the bills and I'm sure I think there was a bankruptcy in there at some point. So that struggle of just, hey, can you notice me for 5 seconds and pay attention to me and stuff was tough in a larger family.

Una Doyle : 00:07:38

How did you cope with us?

Haley Estelle : 00:07:41

I don't know, honestly, I think I just rolled with it, got comfortable setting. You know what, this is what I did. I got comfortable settling into the background and that is something I carry with me even to this day. I am so much more in tune with my own voice and being heard, but still being comfortable going, hey, you're going to get your chance to speak up. It's okay to take a step back. You don't have to be anxious about people not noticing you. They're going to notice you because what you have to say is so important. And so that mantra of it's okay to come forward, it's also okay to step back. So it can sound a little negative, but honestly, when you're constantly on and vying for people's attention, it's really helpful to take a step back and just say, you know what, it's okay. It's okay to step back for a second. So that's three years of therapy I've learned how to accomplish that.

Una Doyle : 00:08:34

Great. And as you went through school, what was that journey like? Where did your kind of career path take you?

Haley Estelle : 00:08:42

Sure presume we're talking college. You don't want to get into like, elementary and junior high.

Una Doyle : 00:08:47

In high school, was there anything significant from those times?

Haley Estelle : 00:08:50

Just lots of buoy, the usual. It wasn't nearly as prolific as I feel it is now with social media, but sure. I got made fun of, which I somehow lost my glasses on my travels back from Chicago yesterday. So if you see them in the background, let me know because I can't find them. But growing up in the wore these big grandma shaped glasses, just huge bottle cap lenses, and was a total nerd. And that carried on really through probably my sophomore year of high school. So fun stuff. I was also in the marching band, which is the less cool of the activities, so there was lots of fuel there just to be teased a little bit. But when I graduated high school, I didn't know what I wanted to be. I had all these grandiose plans, but I was pregnant at 17, so all of these plans went on pause, and I became so focused on making sure that this child has something of a life. So I went to school for an undergrad in business Administration. And the thought process there was I have some tools and skills that I developed in my early employment with various municipal governments, and I can take this business degree and use it for anything. I don't have to decide right now. I can build my skill set and over time figure it out. And that worked great until about 2013, 2014. I graduated in 2008 with an undergrad, took six years off because in the workforce, what I found is an undergrad degree is not enough. At least here in the States, it's just not enough. If you really want to promote, you better go back to school for your master's degree. So I did because I had my eye on a promotion to become an assistant department director for one of the departments I worked in. Went back to school. I did it all online because I was raising kids and working full time and got a Masters of business Administration, an MBA. No specialty, no specific. I didn't want to tie myself down to human resources or It or project management. I am a generalist. I know what is the seeing jack of all trades? Master of none. I think that's the most common phrase people hear. The other half of that is better than being a master of none or of one. I think one of those. And that actually, if you look at the history of my career, I bounced around from a front desk to very public facing City Council office and now to business ownership and entrepreneurialism. That's a hard word to say, but you get what I'm going with. I never expected I would be here, quite honestly, if you had asked me back in 2016 when I got my MBA that I would be here. No, absolutely not.

Una Doyle : 00:11:41

You mentioned working for different government departments. How did you find that environment?

Haley Estelle : 00:11:49

Oh, it was interesting, and it varies based on the department that you were in. So my career started off in the recreation department at the front desk, and I was really responsible for basically signing children and adults up for recreational activities that the city had to offer. That department, as you can imagine, is fun loving and chaotic. There's a lot of things that go on in the background, but it wasn't really hitting a skill set that I wanted to develop. So I applied a lateral move for a position in Human Resources. And this is I love HR. I can't tell you exactly why. Maybe because I love to see the way people work and how policies and practices actually impact the daily lives of employees. And so got into Human Resources and stuck it out there for six years. And HR gave me exposure to all of the departments I represented the appointed officials, elected officials, public safety, recreation, of course, and a few others. And got to know the inner workings of those groups and the bureaucracy that takes place and the red tape that's there, and trying to figure out ways to convince people that maybe we didn't need to have all of these checks and balances or finding ways to improve the lives of the employees. I am a public servant at heart, and that's something I still carry with me today. So when I got into Human Resources, it really became about better serving this employee population because they are public servants, right? We don't have the roads and streets and lights and things that we take for granted without these folks. So that became a real passion of mine through Human Resources that then turned into Human Resources in a Transportation Department. And when I say Creative Flow Office, we're building the roads, we're building the sidewalks, we're installing street lights. And I fell in love with infrastructure. To this day, if we're driving by an asphalt paving project, I have to make sure my husband pulls over so that I can look at it and hopefully say hi and ask how they're doing and that kind of stuff. So that then it's inner workings. The level of the position that I was in had exposure to city management at a decision making level. And so I got to see the inner workings of that government and how decisions are made and how money is spent and how budgets are allocated. And that was fascinating. And then I moved into a city council assistant position. So now this is a different side of government, right. You are now working for an elected official, but the community selected and voted for it and based on their ideals of what they want their government to look like, that was wild. That became a situation where it's the belly of the beast. And I thought, is this a place I want to stay? Not that there was anything legally wrong happening, but morally some of the things behind the scenes that you see are a little disenfranchising. But in that line of work, I got to initiate a community survey to see, check in with the community, see how they're doing, what they'd like to see. And in my research for this project, I met a consultant in the public involvement world of transportation, working on federal highways and freeways, learned about how she executed this community survey that she had done on a separate project. And at the end of the conversation, she invited me to lunch, offered me a position, and so I left to go work in the consulting world. So now it's flipped, right? We went from government to government consulting, and that is where I started to really experience and suffer with burnout because those consultants are wild. It's a very profit driven group of people and my heart is always with the public. So I loved that aspect of it. But profit margins, budget tracking, and those things that I understood just became so worrisome and burdensome and took a toll on my mental health in probably the worst way through all of the things I've been through in my life. That was a tough one to get through, but because I had the experience within public agencies, I was really able to serve my clients to a T, knew what they were going to ask, when they were going to ask it, and how to serve them and when they left that company. I started my own small business in consulting, and I still actually have contracts with some of those old clients today. So it's a wild ride.

Una Doyle : 00:16:21

And take a breath. Fabulous. Thank you so much, Haiti, for bringing us through that journey. I want to dive into some of the things that you talked about in this. So I'm really curious about my experience of you and a lot of the things that you're talking about. I'm wondering when you were dealing with lots of people at the front desk in the consulting, in the various roles that you've done here, how did you find that? Was that draining for you? Was that energizing for you?

Haley Estelle : 00:17:04

Sure. For me it was energizing. In the moment. You could plug me in at the front desk and I could work for 8 hours straight and love every second of one of the busiest registrations and engaging with people and talking to them about their kids, that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, and this still holds true now, if I'm on a lot, and by on, I mean interacting with employees or the public or networking. When I get home, I am completely empty. I have to have a very specific self care routine and alone time to reset. So it's not energizing. I'm like the Energizer bunny. As long as I'm there, I can go. But the second I shut off, no more for at least eight to twelve efforts.

Una Doyle : 00:17:49

Okay, interesting. And you talked about I'm really curious. You talked about the belly of the beast and some things like what was your biggest kind of what the flip moment that you experienced there were?

Haley Estelle : 00:18:06

I think it was more to do with gosh, the allocation of some of the budgets and the way that money is moved around. I don't want to say stealing from Peter to pay Paul. I don't even know if I have that phrase right, but let's borrow from this fund and put it over here. And my perception was it was for optics to show, oh, public safety now has this budget, what budget is now in a deficit? Because we made this change, and it's very politically driven. A lot of those decisions are, how will we be seen by the public if we make this choice as opposed to how can we become better public servants? And that was actually it was a little disheartening because my goal back when I started my municipal career was to be a city manager someday. And I adjusted because I just couldn't get behind the politics of being basically bought out. You know what I mean? So it was a tough transition, if I'm honest. I really had my heart set on that and then saw it lies in front of my face, and I was like, I don't think I can be part of this.

Una Doyle : 00:19:14

I feel it's possible for people to be in those kinds of roles without participating in these politically driven optically decisions.

Haley Estelle : 00:19:27

Right. I'm not sure if that can be done in the city management world. The city management is really serving the mayor and council in these types of governments. I will say I have seen elected officials operate in a way like what you're saying. There was one council member who I still look up to this day. He's no longer serving there, but he didn't take endorsements, he didn't take donations. He fully funded his own campaign. Him in action at the council meetings was just awe inspiring because he wouldn't go with the group. He didn't care what they were saying. He knew his community, and in his heart, he was there to serve his community. He wasn't there to better himself or run for a commissioner or anything else. So that true passion, I believe, can exist in the policymakers. Who are our government? The people who work for the government are at the behest of who their leadership team is. I think it's a little tougher for them, but if I ever run for office, it will be under that very impressive individual council member because he was wonderful, loved him.

Una Doyle : 00:20:31

I'm delighted that he found at least a little smidge of inspiration, despite having your dreams dashed in that regard. Said you started your own consulting firm when you left, you'd experience burnout. You were saying this was really bad for your mental health. Can you share with us what was the daylight when you were going through that? Just so people could get a sense of they might even recognize it for themselves?

Haley Estelle : 00:21:03

Yeah, I mean, you don't even notice the little things that are happening. My patience with my kids, who by that point when I was consulting high school, my patience is dwindling. Exhausted at the end of every day. It's like you get up at six, you get ready, you go to work, you get home, you make dinner, you go to bed. And it was just that routine. I wasn't getting any quality time with my kids, which had been such a huge priority in their years, but it stops. We can't go to the museum this weekend like we usually do. We're going to go next weekend. Oh, we can't go this weekend because I've got to work. And that just becomes this cycle and then you never get back to the routine you once had. End of it. It was crying on the bus or on the train on the way to work every day. Dreading the day to come, say, I stopped caring. But it was like, I can't put my heart into this anymore because I don't feel it. I'm exhausted. And then crying all the way home. Dreading the next day. That cycle of anxiety and depression. Right. You're depressed because you've spent all of this time not doing what you wanted to do, and then you're anxious about what's to come. And not living in the present. Living in the present. I was either worried about something I had messed up or worried about this huge project or task or commitment that they had made for me on my behalf. Bold to say, and it's a lice out of me, for lack of a better phrase. I just wasn't who I was when I started. And I'm working 10 hours a day, four, five, six days a week, nights. In a lot of cases, I was doing public meetings, and our public isn't available unless they're after work hours. But in addition to that, the networking obligations of a consulting firm are vast. There's happy hours, there's conferences, there's travel. So in addition to the regular workload, I'm going to this happy hour because there might be a client there who needs our help and I need to go sell. I wasn't in sales, but essentially that's what we're doing, contract work. It was just and balancing children. Right. I volunteered as a chaperone for my son's marching band. So every Friday at the end of my leak, I'd talk home, I'd get on the bus, I'd chaperone. It was chaos. There was no time for me. And that became an issue because I couldn't be present with my family. So I quit that job, not for three years, but I finally did.

Una Doyle : 00:23:37

I was going to ask, how long did you have that go on before you came to that decision? Was there something that specifically happened that made you that's it, I've had enough.

Haley Estelle : 00:23:50

Well, as I'm thinking about the last few months, it becomes such a big concern that my project managers were going to their supervision and saying, we need to hire more staff or we're going to lose her. She's burnt out. She can't do any more. And after my leadership had gone to their leadership and showed that no changes were made any four months, and it was like, you know what? I have to do this. People who know me and are willing to hire me and I'm done. And that's ultimately, I think I was on eight or ten huge projects. We're talking millions and millions of dollars in infrastructure communities in the hundreds of thousands. You can imagine what these communications plans look like. And there was no break. It was one project. One project, one project, all on different timelines. Beingxious just thinking about it again, hitting goosebumps, like, oh, don't put me back there. But that was that when I said my concerns, they were observed, they were shared and then not addressed. I'm the only one who's going to fight for me, and I'm going to do it by leaving. So bye.

Una Doyle : 00:24:50

Yeah, let's come back today. Let all that go. You can let it go. Let it go. So you started your own consulting firm. How did that go?

Haley Estelle : 00:25:03

Oh, gosh, we did a little bit about this. If you recall, I started a firm doing what I'm good at, and this firm has been around now a year and a half maybe. And as I've worked through my contracts, I've come to the realization that I don't love it. You started the business as a means to an end, to have a career still. I didn't want to completely leave the workforce, but I didn't want to work for anybody. And I was really good at this consulting and isn't filling my cup. Anytime I get a contract, it's not, oh, yeah, I get to work on this. It's me dreading having to on it. So, wonderful learning experience. I mean, Honest should start an LLC inexpensive, figure it out as you go. And mayor. I've learned a lot about myself. I've learned a lot about serving clients in different capacities and a lot about setting boundaries and being able to say no or my inability to do so because I am a one man, one woman show, if you will, people, pleaser. And a yes person, which is a habit I've been trying to break for a little while now. So process of restructuring that firm, see where it lands. I am more of a standard operating procedure. Let me teach you how to do it so that you will leave me alone than actually in the leads every day on the task. I like to lead one time. Come and adjust if need be, but this is now your baby. You take it. Let me know if you have questions.

Una Doyle : 00:26:30

And when I introduced you, in fact, the focus there was I said, you're CEO of Be Better Utah, which is not the consulting firm that you're talking about, right?

Haley Estelle : 00:26:41

Yes. Be Better Utah came around out of left field completely unexpected. That's the product of my husband and I looking at alternative ways to diversify our income. So we moved in 2021 and we were supposed to retire is what the plan was. Okay, retire. I know I'm so young, I don't have to say it, but leave the workforce and enter. And that lasted approximately three months. And we were like, well, maybe we should check something else out. And we were introduced to the world of franchising. And I immediately was like, I don't want a McDonald's. Like, no to you. I'm not interested in franchising. But we were introduced to a mental health franchise, and that really piqued my interest because Tween is when I started my mental health journey, getting help from a therapist, and it changed my life. And as a person not in the mental health field, this opportunity gave me the ability to build clinics to serve the public in an arena that genuinely changed my life for the better and changed my children's lives. Drew me for the better. And so I get the chance. I got myself a full time job since we're still in the very opening processes. It's interesting joining of my passion for public service, right. Not necessarily in a government, but improving my community, getting involved in something I love. But I'm not a subject matter expert in that's. How Be Better you saw came to be that's the umbrella that owns the franchise and will grow. It's such a good opportunity to grow. I mean, clouds am I at the north end of the wheel? I know we're not there yet, but me being the cloud of things, ten years from now, I'd love for this to Better Utah, to have a nonprofit arm scholarships to folks who maybe can't afford mental health services or don't have access, that kind of thing. So we're in the very infant stages. I have to remind myself that they'll go to baby. We're just learning and we don't know anything about the process of building a clinic. So that's be better. Utah. That again was a surprise. Never thought it would happen. I really didn't enjoy the consulting, and so here's the opportunity to try something new.

Una Doyle : 00:29:04

Fabulous. So you're doing this. With your husband. What roles do you each play?

Haley Estelle : 00:29:11

So I am the CEO, the title for the visionary, and my husband is the CEO. More on the data side, the financial side. The moment he starts talking about money, I tend to just check out because I'm doing it to serve the community. I'm not doing it to make money. Well, we got to keep the lights on somehow, right? So he does that side of it. There's a book called Rocket Fuel that we've read, and you've got your visionary, and I believe it's called the Integrator. So he's the integrator. However, I fall right in between visionary and integrator. So I have a lot of systems knowledge and efficiencies knowledge that he doesn't have. He's got a different background than I do. So I find myself setting the vision, and then side of that coin is implementing and integrating the systems that are going to create an efficient work process so that someday I can be semiabsentee instead of fully involved in every step of the way.

Una Doyle : 00:30:06

So what is your biggest challenge right now in moving towards achieving your longer term vision? Haley.

Haley Estelle : 00:30:15

Sure. So that challenges listening to my guns and making sure I don't waiver when I am questioned or challenged on a decision that I have for the organization. That is the biggest challenge, and I think it probably comes down to communication. Trying not to acquiesce to whatever anybody's asking. Right. You know, the sign of discontent, forget it. I'll just do what you want.

Una Doyle : 00:30:40

You described yourself earlier as a people pleaser.

Haley Estelle : 00:30:43

Oh, yeah. It's a hard habit to break. You learn to stay quiet and stay unnoticed and just try to keep everybody happy all the time. And that sort of is ingrained. It's actually ingrained in your neural network. There's a lot of brain science behind this stuff. Breaking those habits that your brain has been using to protect you can be really hard. You have to continually say, hey, it's okay. We're in 2022. It's not free anymore. You're going to be okay. Practicing, really standing on my ground and saying, no, this is what we're doing. You are more than welcome to offer me feedback. But at the end of the day, after my research and all of the things I've put in place to make sure this is a viable option, this is what we're doing. And if it doesn't work, I'm okay with reevaluating and renegotiating and doing something different. But those conversations right at the beginning of the clinic establishment were really challenging. Even since the last time when I spoke weeks ago, I have found the say, I appreciate your feedback, that this is the direction that we're heading. If it doesn't work, please let me know and we'll revisit end. You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to leave less opportunity for feedback. It's a democracy until it isn't. Yes. It's tough people pleasing to still do it. Like yesterday, I gave up my seat on the airplane in the aisle because a gentleman who was double my size was going to end up in the middle seat. And I was like, you know what? Let me just scoot over. Did I want to sit in between the big guy and the big guy? No, but I did it. So that kind of little day to day stuff is still a challenge.

Una Doyle : 00:32:25

Who are the people who you tend to have these challenging conversations with?

Haley Estelle : 00:32:31

My husband, mostly.

Una Doyle : 00:32:34

Okay.

Haley Estelle : 00:32:35

It's mostly my husband. The clinic director that we have on board, she is great and have a really good working relationship. No decision that I'm making that affects the operation of the clinic is done in a vacuum. I want her feedback. She's my subject matter expert. I have this idea. Clinic Director do you think it will work? How can I make it work? Improvements that we can do. And she's super open to sharing and listening to my ideas. I've implemented an unlimited paid time off policy that just that's the one that got everybody, even at the corporate level, up in arms, and the guy don't care. I'm going to try it. You've never done it before. We don't know if it's going to work or not. And my clinic director was super on board with it, so I have her full support. So really it is just my husband. Yeah.

Una Doyle : 00:33:29

Okay. And this is part of the trials and tribulations of having a family business. Right. So you mentioned earlier about we talked about Flow and we talked about the Ignition personality profiling tool. So you took your test and you came out as an engineer. So it's going to share your boarding pass, as is called. The whole thing around Ignition is based on going on a journey. So your profile report is actually called a boarding pass. It would indicate, and we never actually say you're this or you're that, because only you know what has you in Flow, but it's an indication, it's a basis for discussion. And certainly you mentioned when you read it that you're like, that's me. So what was it that struck you most?

Haley Estelle : 00:34:21

Nova and Wise, obviously the if nothing else in the description of this, the engineer as it's assigned, it says engineers love to design things, especially structures and systems. And that is what I do. It's what my consulting firm does. But it's also what I have the opportunity to build with, be better. Utah, is to create systems in the onboarding process. I've got forms that employees fill out that allow me to order business cards, t shirts, update my website, and update headshots in one form that takes five minutes, and all of that data is automatically populated, and I can move on to the next thing. Orientation checklist. That has all of the training videos, forms, documentation, signatures. Checkboxes, check, check, check. Done. It's all filed and finished for me, focused on the vision and growing my business. I want to see that ten year vision down the line. If I can create efficient processes that I don't have to spend time on, then I can spend more time in the clouds, which is where I'm most comfortable. Makes sense. Does that answer your question?

Una Doyle : 00:35:31

Yeah. And it's interesting because some of the nuances between an engineer and an astronaut which has more of the Nova fuel, which is the big picture thing, fast movers, which you talked about, you've taught how fast you move and that's really that over fuel. And why I asked you about how do you feel being around people, because the energy of somebody who is probably more comfortable around people and energized by conversations than many wise fuel people that I've spoken to. However, I can see the whole system structured thing as well and how that excites you. And at the same time, I have a lot of Nova fuel. I'm on that cusp between the Nova and the exuberance. So I'm a pilot profile and late to an extent of it. I've been all day around people. I also will want to rest. Interesting, because you're not brilliant at creating from a blank sheet of paper. Whereas typically engineers, they're more about improving systems and processes that already exist. Yet it sounds to me like you like designing them from scratch.

Haley Estelle : 00:36:57

Is this orch woke about it in the in the mental health in the clinic that we're developing? This isn't something new I've put into place. Even the vision that I've set isn't really new. There's a huge opportunity for it to seem new because of the community that we live in, which is a predominantly white community, a conservative traditional, if you will. So the Vision Civic Clinic is operate under a social justice and traumainformed lens, tqia Affirming, serving the BIPOC and AEI populations, making sure that we are providing accessible care to disenfranchise populations within communities. So that's the vision. It's not new thing. I have the things from scratch engineer side with process improvement. Yes, I do those things mostly from blank. The systems work because we're under the franchise umbrella. They handle a lot of the administrative things. So my one form for my employee biography actually will fill four or five other forms. So I went and looked at the four or five other forms, said, what's the information I need for these? What's repetitive? What can I isolate and bring down and make one five minute form and it's all dead. So I don't know if that's new so much as taking these existing things and simplify just make it easier. I don't want another email, for crying out loud.

Una Doyle : 00:38:25

Yes, it does. Thank you. Because what you really did when you said that you're simplifying, that absolutely is the focus of an engineer. How can I make this work better? How can I make it more elegant, more simple, more effective? And you have a lot of nova Fuel as well. People are afraid that personality profiling is about putting them into a box. This really isn't. It's about liberating people to be who they really are and in understanding not just their natural strengths and personality, but how to structure their role, their business, in a way that means they get to spend as much time in Flow, then you can't be burnt out.

Haley Estelle : 00:39:19

Right? You're absolutely right. This is the reason why I like to simplify the processes, because the less time I can spend there, the more time I can get bigger ticket things done that really are the meat of the clinic and the way that I want it built. Also, on a business side of the house, creating these simplified processes create efficiencies for my employees. They're not focusing on the size forms they have to fill out. They get one form and then they go back to work. That also trickles down in the event that we decide to sell this business or bring on new leadership. Here's the forms. There's three forms. This is everything that you need. Or these are the three processes. It makes everything so much more streamlined so that I can get into Flow and design new things that are even better than the original things and continue to grow until we have this machine that someday will operate on its own. And I can actually be semiabsentee be wonderful.

Una Doyle : 00:40:19

So Michael Gerber wrote called the emth, and there's a lot of really valuable things in the Emeath. However, it actually isn't the best for every single person. There are some very valuable things there, but he is an engineer like that's. His profile focus is about how can you take a small or medium sized business and turn it into a turnkey operation? So it's really about people using the strategies that suit them. And I think it's so interesting that you use the word machine because you're an engineer.

Haley Estelle : 00:40:51

Funny. So my background, I worked in consulting with an engineering firm. I was surrounded by engineers in my job, I always said, I'm the translator for engineers. They're going to talk to you about all these fans and scuppers and retention basins. This is what they're really trying to say. There is some of the most frustrating people to work with. I love all of my engineers. I want you to know that right out of the gate, you are all amazing. But their thought process is so much different. I feel like I want to shoot my own horn. But my experience in adjusting to the public facing on these very technical things allows me to create efficient processes that are easier for everybody. They're easier for me, they're easier for you, they're easier for the clients that we're going to be serving. So machine it's in a machine, and I'm trying to keep them all well oiled and spinning.

Una Doyle : 00:41:41

So we have determined that Haley is in fact an engineer in terms of the ignition profiling. And in the next episode, we're going to dive more into the team dynamics, the family dynamics that you can have in this kind of a business, and even looking at the team roles, team flow, and how masculine and feminine energies play a part in actually running a very effective business.

Una Doyle : 00:42:10

That's all for today, folks. Have you subscribed to get more of this juicy goodness for your business? If not, tap that button now. Remember to check the description for links mentioned in this episode. Did you enjoy and find value in this free broadcast? I want you to know that I go so much deeper into the topics discussed with coaching and workshops based on my impact driven growth model. Want to know how I can help you to double your profits without spending a penny more on marketing around? Let's arrange to hop on a call to discuss your goals and challenges and I'll show you how. Plus, when you book, I'll send you some free training videos too. Go book now at www.CreativeFlow.tv/callwithuna