Eps 023: Finding Joy Through Challenges: Nikky Starrett on Textiles, Disability and Entrepreneurialism - Part 1

[Nikky Starrett]

I said, I need to show my stuff online. Can you do that for me? And that's not a clear brief like that's on me. And I did say I have have to be able to edit this, but I didn't tell her what my capabilities were. I said, I can use WordPress, I've used elementor, but she didn't ask me, can you use Divi? Or whatever it was that she ended up using? And so there it's always a two sided thing and if you can step back and say, where am I falling short? Where are they falling short? And how could we fix this or can we fix this? And if not, how can we not burn our bridge moving forward? Because I've noticed that people in our circles often come back around in places that we at least expect them. And if we burn those bridges, we've essentially cut ourselves off from some really fantastic adventures that we would have otherwise missed out on. It's something I love thinking about while I'm lying awake at night looking at the SARS.

[Una Doyle]

Welcome to the she Leads Business Show, where I shine this spotlight on female owners of growing small and medium sized businesses. You're in the right place if you want to ditch distress and firefighting, stop working too many hours despite having team members, and never compete on Price again. I'm Una Doyle, founder of creativeflow TV. I'm a speaker, business strategist, and impact coach. Business owners hire me to help them to build a business they could sell tomorrow, but they probably don't want to because it's highly profitable. It's fun to run because they and their team are in creative flow and they get to make a bigger impact on the world. In every episode, myself and my guests share the strategies, stories and wisdom to help you to achieve this too. Now, let's get on with the show.

[Una Doyle]

Hello and welcome back to She Leads Business. And today I am so happy to have with me Nikky Starrett. Nikki, welcome.

[Nikky Starrett]

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Una Doyle]

Lovely. I think what Nikki does is amazing. She's selling an exclusive line of very special Turkish towels. They look amazing. And yeah. And specializes in custom towels, private brands and marketing merchandise. And her company is called Pump and SAS. Nikki, we were going to dive into your company and where you're going later on, but for now, I just want to get to know a bit more about you. So tell me, what's your most prominent memory in growing up?

[Nikky Starrett]

Oh, goodness, that's a very good question. My youth was very strict and we had a lot of rules and a lot of uniforms. So we would have the school uniform and the dance uniform and the church clothes and we had a lot of very regimented days. And my most prominent memory is sitting around the table with my family. My mother really valued having family over so every Sunday, my grandparents would come over. We would have this lovely meal. Usually we would make the family pie with a family pie crust and we would all have a conversation. And we would at the time, there wasn't the cell phones to distract us, but we wouldn't have those distractions. We would just talk with one another, have that community and truly connect. And then, of course, after dinner, there was the tea and the pie, and we would do this every single week. And it was something that I held very dear. It was a moment out of our very busy schedule. And when we're talking about being very regimented and being very strict about how our time was spent, I loved that was something that we really made sure happened.

[Una Doyle]

So that schedule really worked for you. Did you feel a bit hemmed in by the kind of uniforms and the regimen, or was that security for you?

[Nikky Starrett]

It was a little bit of both. So when I was growing up and I was an angsty teenager, I wanted to break out of the malls. But at the end of the day, I love a good routine. I love being able to look forward to that first coffee in the morning, the routine of I know what holidays are coming up and I can look forward to that. And so as much as I would like to say I wanted to break free and do my own thing, at the end of the day, I loved it. And it was this wonderful moment of security and looking forward to fantastic.

[Una Doyle]

I think it's interesting that's one thing that I miss having come from a big family, that I don't get to have those family meals much anymore. I've just recently come back from Ireland visiting family, and we did get to have one. And I love it. I just love it. The people around and everyone's chatting about different things and yeah, it's that conversation. I think there just is something in us that if we think about prehistoric times and we were part of a clan, I think there's something in us as humans that likes to have that connection.

[Nikky Starrett]

I would absolutely agree. And even though our family has gotten much smaller in these most recent years, still getting together and having my mother over for just Sunday dinner, even though it's just her now, it's this really wonderful thing. And whether you're a large group or a small group, and it's friends who you consider family or family who you consider family, it's one of those opportunities to get together, make eye contact and share a meal in a quiet setting that I think really is very precious to me.

[Una Doyle]

Wonderful. What about school? Did you enjoy school?

[Nikky Starrett]

I did and I didn't. There's always those ups and downs. I didn't have a lot of luck in building a lot of friendships. There were a couple of friendships that were very dear to me. And once in a while I said to myself, I'd like to really connect with a few of those people again. I'm not sure why I haven't yet. Sometimes the past is best left in the past. I don't want to open that up again. But I love learning and I was privileged enough to go into a frank phone education system. I speak fluent French, and here in Canada, what we do is we've got the French and we've got the English, we've got the French immersion. And I was able to experience the focus on community and being able to experience that. And they're very joyful, they're very celebratory culture, and I was able to experience that. I come from a very sober, very quiet family, and so being able to experience that loud, boisterous, fun loving energy was something I really rather relish. And now I speak both French and English, of course, in the Canadian way. So I would go to Paris. I don't presume having the beautiful accent.

[Una Doyle]

Presumably you would still be able to communicate.

[Nikky Starrett]

One would hope so. I would be able to get by. But the Kiva Qua twang is very noticeable. It's like going to England with my very Canadian English action. It's very noticeable that I am from somewhere else, but I'm a little bit twisted that way. I really enjoy that sort of adventure of shock, of like, Where are you from? So it's a little bit of an interest point to get me into the door and having a lovely conversation with someone.

[Una Doyle]

Definitely. Sometimes I confuse people because I have some people laugh when I say I'm Irish because it's been really obvious to them. And then other times, people, Where are you from? And I think when I'm in particular in networking situations or meeting people, I pick often who I'm talking to. When I talk to my sister, then my Irish accent gets very strong. When I talk to English people, I think I sound more English. And it's nothing conscious, it just happens. But yes, it often is a great conversation starter.

[Nikky Starrett]

Absolutely. And I'm told that psychologically, that's actually you being a people person, and that has to do with you being rooted in empathy. So it's a wonderful setting. I often tend to change my accent just a little bit as well, especially if I'm talking to someone in French. My English will change that little bit. My husband often laughed at me about things. Oh, I can hear your friends again. He must have been talking about Tibet.

[Una Doyle]

Fantastic. What was your favorite subject in school?

[Nikky Starrett]

Art. I love art and I, to this day, have a deep and unabiding love for art. I love the art history, I love the technique, I love the critique, I love the community, I love the silence of creating. I have this great passion for it.

[Una Doyle]

There's definitely something about being able to create uninterrupted that is very powerful, isn't it?

[Nikky Starrett]

Yes, we call it getting into the zone and being able to almost in a meditative way, focus on what you're doing with the self expression and just enjoying that moment of creating it's, this wonderfully, powerful moment that really can set you up for success mentally for the rest of the day.

[Una Doyle]

Indeed. And that's something that we talk about here a lot, which is that being in the zone, I talk being in flow. And in fact, even with clients, I'm doing personality profiling with them to help them identify how to structure their business, to be more in flow. And for a lot of creative, client delivery is in flow. But what about the running of the business? So helping them to make sure, yes, they're choosing the right business model, the right strategies, the right task, activities to focus on and either let go of or delegate outsource the rest.

[Nikky Starrett]

Absolutely. Especially with all of the different learning styles that we have and the different ways that our brains work and just the different personalities and preferences. It can be really powerful to understand who you are, what makes you tick in order to tap into that power and then being able to release those things that really you don't enjoy. And that's something I'm hoping we could talk about later on in this episode because that's something that I struggle with. Being the sole entrepreneur that I am. I'm trying to learn when and where and how to release that control because I really don't have time for it all.

[Una Doyle]

Indeed, many of us who are more creative, we have a natural tendency to love control, let's say nicely control enthusiasts.

[Nikky Starrett]

It's a very polite way of putting I appreciate that, it's very kind.

[Una Doyle]

It's something I've experienced myself too, and most of my clients do at some point or another, particularly when it comes to starting team and things like that. Yeah, fantastic. So you clearly are a very creative person. You loved art as well. Where did you go next? Where does that take you?

[Nikky Starrett]

So I ended up getting into a four year degree of illustration. I wanted to be a visual communicator, I wanted to solve problems with pictures. And I was really struggling at the time with an unfortunate amount of stress to some complications with my past. And I felt myself very much stressed out. I didn't have the clear, let's say, daily structure that I really enjoy. I didn't have the support anymore. I had to leave home and I found myself in this very foreign situation going to art school, which was a very loose community, a very vibrant intellectual, but with so much variance in preference and lifestyles that it was quite shocking to me. So I went into college. I didn't have a very clear sense of self at the time and I was asked to create based on my own personality and I thought, oh my goodness, what is that? But I ended up finding my best friend who ended up marrying, and him and I walked through once together, we figured it out. And I realized through all of our deep conversations, long games of canasta, lot of drawing, he is a magnificent artist. And being able to walk through that, I found out that I loved making puzzles with my art, which ended up becoming textile design. I loved reverse engineering a pattern so that you could take a twelve x twelve inch square, have it repeat on masks with this beautiful intricate art that looked seamless. And that's a very difficult thing to do. And so I started finding myself deeply intrigued by this. And I ended up graduating from college. I went into textile design and I didn't look back for a very long time. At this point in my life, I had a very painful neurological disability, so I wasn't able to move or function. My brain was always bogged down by pain, brain fog, but what I was able to do is hone in, have that slow moment, that then moment of creation and create this art. And so eventually, as I moved through this, I became rather good at textile design. It's something that I'm quite passionate about. And I ended up becoming represented internationally by different textile design agencies, which was rather fantastic and brought me a great deal of joy as I navigated the pain and the disability and married life and all of that. It was a very challenging ten years of my life, but I was still able to find moments of joy.

[Una Doyle]

I know we've had a few conversations about textiles because regular listeners will know I sew as a hobby and anything to do with textiles and fabric is like very exciting.

[Nikky Starrett]

And I specialized in home decor. And I have always been a little bit bewildered by fashion. I love a good vintage clothes. It's a pattern and a style that I know very well. But the fast fashions of the day bewildered me a little bit. And so I gravitated more towards the home textiles, the wallpapers, the furniture, the rugs. And I think that's why I ended up building my own household item instead of clothing line like everyone thought that I would, because it's something that I'm much more familiar with. And then of course, once we get through my journey, then there's that beautiful story of recovery that I can share, if that's something that you're interested in hearing about.

[Una Doyle]

Of course.

[Nikky Starrett]

Awesome. So this is one of those feel good moments that's not so great to live through, but is really wonderful to hear. And so what happened was my husband and I got to a point where I had worked through my disability enough that I was willing and set up for success to be a disabled parent. And so we started fertility treatments because we were hoping to overcome the infertility that I land fortunately assigned to. And we overcame infertility thanks to the wonderful medical practices that are available here. And the pregnancy get this rather remarkable thing. I didn't find out until after I was pregnant because the doctors omitted to tell me this, but there was a chance that my disability could get worse, there was a chance that my disability could get better and there was a chance that it could be cured altogether and so would have been really nice to know. But they said that it was very rare that it would be cured altogether and so I'm very happy to say that was something that I've been blessed with. And not only was my disability cured thanks to the pregnancy with my child, but I was able to then go on and list others here in Canada. It might be something very common elsewhere in the world, but our hospitals are now accepting breastfelt for premature births and children who are having adverse side effects to formula in the incubators. And so I was able to not only be blessed with my own child, but also I was able to help save the lives of others who were in a very risky sort of situation. And all of these blessings sort of came about all at once like a big waterfall of joy. And now I'm very blessed to have an almost six year old, if you can believe it. It's already been six years, it feels like yesterday. And with that second chance of living my best life, I found myself more able and I gave my life a lot of sock. And I said my husband and I talked about it at length and he said this is a really wonderful opportunity, I need a flexible working condition in order to be a present parent. We need the second income because life is expensive. And so we decided to give me the opportunity to pursue my ambition of following my late father's footsteps of entrepreneurialism, having that flexible lifestyle and producing my own line of products which is something I had always wanted to do. I had spent ten years helping other people make their line of product and I wanted that for myself. Didn't quite know what I was getting into when I launched my own product line I thought it was all going to be designed and it's really not. But I'm very happy to say that I did end up launching that. I worked very hard on the business plan. The mission statement of the business is to be a positive influence in the world. And that's it literally it says that to be a positive influence in the world. And so all of the decisions around that business plan ended up revolving around that. I always have to ask is this decision going to be a positive influence in the world? And if ever that answer is no, I don't do it. So choosing that product had to be ethical, it had to be sustainable, it had to have enough margin to give back to charity and all of my hiring, whether it's contract or coop or hiring, which I didn't want, and I'm going to hold off on that for a little while longer. It it had to be a positive influence, it had to be ethical, it had to be sustainable. And that's rather important to me because I lived through pain and suffering for so many years that I wanted to give goodness out, I wanted to attract goodness back to me. I wanted to harbor love and affection and kindness in everything that I do because I realized very quickly in my younger years, going through those challenges, that you can live without the hate and the judgment. And while you will always experience that, it doesn't need to be something that you do. And I took that and I've been running with it ever since and I don't think I'll ever look back to it. And it's this really wonderful place where I get to just soak in the love of my family and we will overcome the negative challenges. Like, you won't always have good vibes, that's not how life works, but it's something that we're pursuing as a goal.

[Una Doyle]

It's so heartwarming to hear of your journey that despite the disability that you had, you thought, you know, what going to create a family anyway? And then also to be able to help other young babies with milk. I just think that's absolutely wonderful and I don't know if they do that here. I hope they do. Yeah, sounds like a wonderful way to be. If something can be natural, then great. It's not always possible for mothers to be able to do that. So, yeah, it sounds fantastic.

[Nikky Starrett]

I was really blessed to be able to produce for two, even though I only had the one. And I'm really hoping that science is going to be more global. I hear that we are sometimes coming after the UK, so I'm assuming that you do have it there. We often look to you for, what are you doing and how can we get onto that boat show but a lot of people, they don't realize that infertility can take a lot of different forms and it's a wonderful conversation to have because someone might think, oh, I'm going to have to go through this expensive IVF. And sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's simply a matter of monitoring the hormones and being able to have that different elevation. I have something called PCOS, which is polycystic ovariant syndrome. And, yeah, it's extremely painful, isn't it?

[Una Doyle]

I'm very lucky in that I do have that too, but thankfully very mildly so. It's not something Brady experienced many symptoms from, but I have had that hormone disruption. But I discovered this by working with a herbalist, and I did have scans that then show this was the case. But the herbs have been very healing for me, and I still take those herbs on a daily basis, and that helps to balance my hormones. And has been fantastic as women go through various cycles. That's been fantastic. And actually, the herbalist that I work with specializes in fertility and helping women to be able to have a healthy period cycle. And if they wish to get pregnant, that's fantastic.

[Nikky Starrett]

More of us should have access to this. And actually just over the weekend, I met someone like that. So I think I'm going to have to give her a call, because if I can do something naturally, I'd much prefer that.

[Una Doyle]

Definitely. I'm the same. If we break an arm or a leg, then we definitely want to go to hospital and get it fixed. I think there's a lot we can do to take control of our own health. The fact is that doctors are not trained in nutrition. And despite the fact that many pharmaceuticals are based on herbal remedies, then they often don't know what is available. And where can you deal with something that is more natural and when do we need a medical intervention?

[Nikky Starrett]

You're absolutely right.

[Una Doyle]

Yeah. If we can take, I think just take responsibility, take ownership of our own bodies and our own health and listening to our bodies, I think there is a lot that we can do.

[Nikky Starrett]

Yes. Preventative medicine. If you can prevent yourself from needing to go to the doctors, if you can make sure that you are taking care of yourself. We don't all have to be the gym bath for eating salad greens and like the turkey legs every single day. It could have a holistic, very balanced approach. Take care of yourself as much as you can, and then when you need to go to the doctor for that support and we have so much wealth of knowledge available to us. The internet was actually created so that medical medicine and information can be mobilized. That was the initial intent of the internet. And he didn't expect us to share as many cat videos as we do. But we can still use that to heal ourselves and to learn about these global opportunities.

[Una Doyle]

Indeed, yes. And there's various people that I follow. So if anyone has any health challenges that you like me to direct you to some people, let me know, reach out to me, message me, and I'll have a conversation with you. And I'm not a medical professional, but I can point you in the direction of some different people, whether they be a practitioner in something or there's some YouTube channels. How many years have you been going in the business then?

[Nikky Starrett]

w you want to perceive it. In: 2019

[Una Doyle]

I think you started the first date that you mentioned. You've just had a number of setbacks. There's a few things I want to go back to in what you shared there. Nikki, you said that you were boasted by your web developer. Tell me more about that.

[Nikky Starrett]

extremely challenging, but in: 2020

[Una Doyle]

I think that's very gracious of you, and I think there's several lessons in that for listeners to take on board as well. This is not the first time that I've heard this kind of situation. So I think it always behooves us to have things in writing and to have the clarity and make sure there's real understanding. And a very simple thing, as well as things being in writing is actually just saying to people, can you repeat back to me what we've agreed and just make sure that they're actually on the same page? Because people make so much assumptions and there's so much in our heads that can get in the way and it can be so easy for misunderstandings to happen. And not to also mention that I see it from the other side as well. I see it where clients have ghosted people without paying them. So I've seen it from both ends. Yeah, nicky is looking very shocked.

[Nikky Starrett]

I'm very sharp, and I should be shocked at this. This is, unfortunately, some of the things that we see in the world, but it's not. And when you know your priorities in life, you can't have that little bit of clarity. But going back to that communication, having it in writing, having those bullet points and not having paragraphs, having sentences, having those key elements outlined, this is what I need. This is how I need it. If you can't provide it, if you don't provide that, these are the steps. Because often we assume that the other people are thinking what we're thinking or that they're hearing what we're saying. And sometimes we're not communicating that properly, and sometimes we're not doing that. And sometimes we don't ask the questions that need to be asked. I had someone call me and they said, look, I need 25 gift banks for this really great opportunity. And I stopped and I said, this is wonderful, and I'm open to whatever it you're going to give me. Are you going to pay for those? Or is this a marketing opportunity for me? And she said, I hadn't thought of it yet, and I'm willing to pay you. And I said, let's meet in the middle. I'll give you wholesale prices, too, because I recognize this opportunity, but I also need the government cost. And she said, that's a really great thing to do. Let's do that. And by having those conversations, and that comes with practice, because back then, I didn't even know how to ask her for a website. I said, I need to show my cell phone line. Can you do that for me? And that's not a clear brief. That's on me. And I did say I have to be able to edit this, but I didn't tell her what my capabilities were. I said, I can use WordPress adhesive elementor. But she didn't ask me, can you use Tiva? Or whatever it was that she ended up using? And so it's always a two sided thing. And if you can step back and say, Where am I falling short? Where are they falling short? And how could we fix this? Or can we fix this? And then if not, how can we not burn our bridge moving forward? Because I've noticed that people in our circles often come back around in places that we at least expect them. And if we burn those bridges, we've essentially cut ourselves off from some really fantastic adventures that we would have otherwise missed out on. It's something I love thinking about while I'm lying awake at night looking at the SARS. But I really shouldn't be sleeping more.

[Una Doyle]

Yes, sleep. Sleep is essential, for sure. Yeah, I think there's plenty there for people to take. And I like the fact that you're also taking responsibility for your part in the situation. I always in my own life, in my own business, with my clients, I'm like, okay, what are you going to do differently going forward? And just reviewing things regularly just makes such a big difference to results, because as long as you take the lessons and implement them going forward, otherwise people just repeat mistakes, don't they?

[Nikky Starrett]

Oh, absolutely. With my five year old, I often tell her mistakes are just growing pains. They're opportunity to learn and to grow. And I haven't told her yet, but you never grow out of that.

[Una Doyle]

Indeed, it doesn't matter how old we get. We'll always make mistakes and we have the opportunity to learn. One of my favorite resources is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Coby.

[Nikky Starrett]

I just bought that and I've been wondering what to read next, so I'm going to have to start altering that because I've heard really good things about it.

[Una Doyle]

It was my first ever personal development and it blew my mind. And as a result of that, for the first time in my life, really, I took responsibility for my life. I took responsibility for the situations in my life and that sent me on a whole different trajectory because up until that point, I would mow and I would complain and I would blame, and I didn't see that I was the common denominator in those situations. It was my actions, it was what I tolerated from other people. And that was the kind of the hinge that opened a fantastic door that has ultimately led me to where I am today.

[Nikky Starrett]

That's fantastic. I had a very similar experience, and I'd like to just say that to you and to myself and to anyone else who's experienced that, congratulations. Because it's an extremely vulnerable, difficult, introspective journey to make. But as soon as we made that, it changed everything. It's like going from decaf to espresso. It makes a world of difference and it's a very difficult thing to do. It's a very difficult thing to do. But isn't it so much better now?

[Una Doyle]

Oh, my gosh, yes. I could never go back. And I don't think you ever can. I think once you see the world in that different way, you can never unsee it. Sometimes people will say what you said about it can be a challenging journey, and I do think it does require some courage to go on that journey. For me, I'm not interested in climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. For me, I think a different kind of courage is what I love to explore. And it is that personal development, that business development. And really every prospective client I talk, I talk about the transformation that must take place in order for them to have the business that they really love. They're the common denominator in that situation. In their business and if they don't have the results that they want, they first need to look at themselves. Now, occasionally I found that women can overdo that and that they can often take on too much responsibility and think it's all them rather than looking at what is actually going on, the people. So there is a balance, there's a balance we have in how you do that. However, it can seem very scary when you first make the switch from blame to responsibility yet if you're not responsible, you're effectively powerless.

[Nikky Starrett]

It's a really interesting way of putting it and you're almost powerless towards your own self deprecating. That's really interesting insight and I think that's why you're so good at what you do because you've done that work, you've done that journey and you're able to bring us through that which I love about you and it's really fantastic. You've gone on those adventures within yourself and you're able to be that guide through our own forest and that's a really interesting way, looking at it. I'm going to leave here and give that very deep thought. That's very exciting.

[Una Doyle]

When you read The Seven Habits I think that will come back to you and you'd be like oh yes, I remember una saying this because when we are responsible, we have the power to change things and if we don't have the power to change a situation, not everything is within our control. We have the power to think about it differently, to feel about it differently and that will change our experience of that.

[Nikky Starrett]

Absolutely. And going back, women falling into this trap a lot. I tend to overthink things, and it's something that I've been working with some of my coaches with that I really do. I overthink it. And more often than not, the answer is so simple. And here I've thought that I've had to make charts and plans and documents and meet with people and do the coaching, and all of these things were really when you go to someone else who knows what they're doing, who's been there, and they can just simply say no. All of this one simple mindset shift, this one simple way of speaking you don't have to make all of those documents, you make a three sentence paragraph and you're good to go. Life isn't as complicated as we sometimes think it is and we don't have to be as hard on ourselves and as we believe that we should be. And when you first start making that transition into taking responsibility or doing the unlearning that we often have to do in life, it doesn't have to be as complicated. So doing this in community with people who are generally trying to help us, generally trying to give us love and affection can be very liberating because it takes so much less time when you do it with people.

[Una Doyle]

You said we don't have to be as hard on ourselves as we think we do. What if you just weren't hard on yourself at all?

[Nikky Starrett]

And that's where I'm doing the learning, because it's absolutely true. And see, I haven't even gotten there yet. But you're right. You're absolutely, 100% right on that.

[Una Doyle]

When we are hard in ourselves, it's generally because we have been taught to be hard on ourselves. We saw perhaps our parents doing it, or they were hard on us both. And if we take responsibility for our part in a situation and make amends, remedy things to the best of our ability, we move forward with lessons. Why is there any need to be hard on ourselves? Because if we get the lesson and we implement that lesson forward, what else is there to do? We don't need to beat ourselves up.

[Nikky Starrett]

You're absolutely right. And as we move forward in our journey, we can recognize where we come from. And it's okay to be human and be fallible. It's okay to not always be the best version of yourself and to give yourself a little bit of that grace. Treat yourself like you would your best friend. Because often we tell our best friends things that we would never dream of telling ourselves. And there's so much shame and there's a really big missed opportunity.

[Una Doyle]

Oh, just wait until we dive into coaching Nikki on her single biggest business challenge. In part two of this interview, she gets some crucial AHA moments that get her unstuck and excited about specifically how to move forward in ways that suit who she is.

[Una Doyle]

That's all for today, folks. Have you subscribed to get more of this juicy goodness for your business? If not, tap that button now. Remember to check the description for links mentioned in this episode. Did you enjoy and find value in this free broadcast?

[Una Doyle]

I want you to know that I.

[Una Doyle]

Go so much deeper into the topics discussed with coaching and workshops based on my impact driven growth model. Want to know how I can help you to double your profits without spending a penny more on marketing around? Let's arrange to hop on a call to discuss your goals and challenges, and I'll show you how. Plus, when you book, I'll send you some free training videos too. Go book now at Creative Flow. That's Creativeflow TV call withuna.